Proposal: enable Stake 2.0 #519
Comments
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You know 95% of the tron community is against this and yet you guys just force it. |
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From a dev and user point of view, it's not possible to enable the new stake mechanism, the infrastructure is not ready. It's been on Nile only for 3 days, Tronscan implementation is not ready. This is a major change to the network resource management, I sincerely hope enough testnet time is given before going live on mainnet. |
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Give it atleast a reasonable amount of time to test stake 2.0 . Like USTX commented it is not ready developers should also be granted sufficient time to test the changes and implement them into their own systems . This is a big change into the network which should be thoroughly tested before deployment into mainnet so no need to rush it . Users are still trying to adjust towards the insane increased on chain fees with the last few proposals . Rushing this will only result in pushing more users and projects away. |
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I completely agree with what has been said here before. This is a major change that affects a large number of existing projects and smart contracts, |
A handful always complain to obstruct greater good. Dev activity record high level. Improvise your skill set. Tron upgrade can't be slown. |
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Fk it. |
If they at least would give a deadline that would certainly help the devs to adapt. |
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The tron blockchain is being developed by the tron team at their own pace and with their own ideas for improvement. So far this rarely resulted in chaos but rather turned tron into one of the most robust and trustworthy blockchains you could use right now. We do not know what TRONs goal is currently, so we should not interfere in their actions too much. |
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Enough time has been given to test stake 2.0 |
It's a fact that the Nile testnet went live around the 14th of February and the compiler didn't work until about the 17th or 18th of february. |
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#467 comment-1361611356, comment-1355605023 |
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I have tested the V2 API on nile by wallet-cli, it works well, and it is pretty easy, try it and come back to leave a comment, unfounded discussion is meaningless. Now I believe this proposal is with no harm. And just one suggestion @lxcmyf , I am not sure how to query some status of V2, such as the expire time of unfreezing transactions. I did not find it in the TIP, hope that you can add explanation or document for it. |
Thank you for that Information. |
Ok, the document will be updated later. Thank you for your use and attention. |
Thanks for the info. I'd like to notify a bug on Tronscan implementation, that is not showing the resources delegate to others or by others.
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@ustx |
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I've made several USDT transfers on the Nile test network, but no matter what I do the energy level does not decreases. Bandwidth is OK, the issue is only related for energy. Maybe the problem is on Tronscan display ... |
Hi, as we discussed in TG group, this is due to the TRC 20 token contract set the consume energy ratio to 0, and it has enough energy balance for transactions, which means the energy of transaction is all payed by the contract owner's address, and the energy in your address would not be consumed. I think by transferring a TRC 20 token that consumes caller's energy, the features can be tested normally on tronscan. |
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If I initiated two unstaking transactions, can I query the two records? Another problem, TRX in unstaking does not display on tronscan, looks like my funds are missing. It is recommended to add a field to display the unsaking, for example,
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Yes, the ongoing unstaking transactions can be queried by wallet/getaccount, and the list of unfrozenV2 shows the records. I can show you an example here: "unfrozenV2": [ |
If you login to tronscan, in the personal account page->Resource->Stake 2.0->My stake, you can see the ongoing unstaking TRX, but it's a bit hidden, will be more friendly if displayed on the main public account page. |
Thanks, very useful! The |
I have no idea what value it will be on the mainnet. I have learned the Ethereum will allow unstaking after Shanghai upgrade, and they have introduced Churn Limit Quotient to restrict amount of unstaking ETH, the reason they do it is to prevent large amount of ETH unstaked in short time to destroy the security of Ethereum, and also to prevent slashing attacks from happening. So regarding this, I guess the parameter N on TRON will be set much longer. I suggest someone could give detailed comparison and analysis about unstaking mechanism between different blockchains, so that the value of N could be determined accordingly. |
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I have investigated the unstaking delay days of some public chains.
Among them, Solana's unstaking delay days is not constant and need to be calculated according to the actual situation. |
I don't think we need a large "N" parameter to safeguard the network. Currently N is equal to 3 days, but practically is equal to zero, since after the 3 days have passed the user can unstake without any delay. So in the event of a high volatility event, right now a huge amount of TRX could be unstaked instantaneously. This situation has never put Tron at risk so far, so I would advise the decision makers to avoid pushing the N value above the current value of 3 days. |
Well, we need to draw different opinions for setting this parameter at this stage. As I have shown in the above survey, I believe that this parameter will become more meaningful after integrating the opinions of all people and the questions they put forward. |
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First I would thank you @lxcmyf for posting the comparison, and we can see most of other chains have much longer lock-up time. Then I want to add some words to my opinion that making the N longer is not only kind of security concern, but also from beneficial consideration. Because by staking TRX, the circulation supply of total TRX will decrease, meaning that there will be less TRX for trading. And it will have positive influence on the price of TRX. And even I think tron should give extra reward to users who stake TRX exceed specific time period. As users on other chains can get on well with so long lock-up time, I think it is not difficult for tron users to feel comfortable with a longer time of unstaking regarding to the steady TRX price. |
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No concerns from me on it |
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@lxcmyf The "N" parameter discussion needs to be in its own entirely new TIP and voted on by the SRs. The "N" parameter in this proposal should stay the same (3 days) as it hasn't been specified. My personal opinion is I am okay with the 3-day stake and nothing more. Anything more becomes very very very user-unfriendly. Maybe it is a better idea for a user to specify their own "N" lock-up period. |
This is valid for small stakes, the amount in DEX should not be enough to convert for big stakers, but I think the lock time is good for the stability of staking, the circulating supply of TRX in the market will not change too much due to large price fluctuations |
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In fact, I prefer the “N” to be 14 days or even larger now. 3 days are too short to deal with price fluctuations. Ethereum owns more than 500,000 validators and still, they make it very complex to unstake. It’s actually much easier for whales on TRON to reach a consensus than that on Ethereum. So if TRON set the “N” value too short, it could be very risky. |
I think you may misunderstood, In stake 1.0, unstaking can only be done three days later after staking. In stake 2.0, unstaking can be done anytime, after staking, |
I agree with that approach. 3 days are perfect, especially since now the unstaking on 2.0 has to be initialized by the user which makes the 3 days timer start from that point on and does not automatically start upon staking like before. For me, it's 3 days minimum to max 7 days. More seems to be counterproductive |
You can lenghten the days all you want this will not result in whales not dumping . Whales simply will not freeze their assets . As the benefits of a 10% pump for instance overrule a 5% yearly APY . Overall TRX sees not much unfreezing during pice jumps and the dumping from the community is minimal. Price action is happening mostly by Bots and the MM |
Hey bro, when they suggest to make "N" 14 days, they are taking the #TRC-484 into consideration. If you double check it carefully, you will find that the staked TRX can be tokenized, meaning users can get sTRX or so after they stake TRX. And such sTRX could be traded in DEX like sunswap or somewhere. Then, they can benefit the profit of staking for energy, votes and meanwhile keep the liquidity. In other words, users no matter whales or retails can all enjoy the APY by staking and hold the liquidity at the same time. And the more important thing to care about is security then. |
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I think the unfreeze lock-up time could be set longer because it would provide additional security and protection for the user’s assets. By increasing the lock-up time, it makes it more difficult for hackers or malicious actors to gain access to the user’s TRX in the event that their account is compromised. This is because the longer lock-up time provides the user with more time to take action and prevent unauthorized access to their funds. Furthermore, a longer lock-up time could also incentivize users to hold their TRX for a longer period of time, which can benefit the overall TRON ecosystem by promoting stability and reducing volatility in the market. |
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Well... compared to other public chains, I would say 14-28 days is acceptable, and I prefer to make it 14 days, it will provide both security and flexibility. |
Your security and protection point of view makes no sense . Hackers simply stay dormant so you would need to know you are compromised . Or in the simplest case they just transfer your STRX and sell those . Longer lock time will not provide security against such acts . |
Yes, N will have nothing to do with hacker attacks. It is not about personnel security, it is only about the chain security. With help of strx, it seems N is no longer an important issue for users. They may set it as long as they wish. We can reduce the risk by strx as long as the pool is deep enough. Then again, if the N must have a value, as some developers insist, the compromise solution is not bad, 14 days may balance the liquidity and security. |
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hi all, when will stake 2.0 go live on mainnet? |
I hope the vote can be initialized recently. |
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Now the correlated developer tools have already supported Stake 2.0:
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Are you completely deaf to most of the community users? Why 14 days, and not 5-7 unlocks, as the community wants, and not your manual representatives ?? |
3-7 days is old news, developers with this opinion cared about the liquidity of staked TRX, but the implementation of strx in the future will solve this problem. You can find the unstaking period of other public chains is far more longer, setting the value 14 days is a balance of security and flexibility. Now the Stake 2.0 is already on mainnet, and seldom people unstake TRX because they do not have to do this to rent energy any more. It is not a big deal. |
The fact of the matter is that now everything is like in other public chains ... It was a feature of the throne, a very nice feature for ordinary users. You don't understand - people withdraw trx because they need to earn and live ... and you all care more about whales, as usual. Only moneybags can bury, stake for a long time - is this news to you too? This is also a deterioration in the decentralization of the network, are you pretending not to know this either? |
It is still the unique feature of TRON, and now it is better, I am enjoying the new model. I don't need to withdraw because I can earn by energy, I have income everyday. My TRX is capital to earn money, and I won't unstake. You are so funny, please buy food first before buying TRX. You are right, I don't understand. |
These are your words "buy food first before you buy TRX" - there is a motto and the whole point of 14 days of unlocking. It sounds very anti-social and anti-people. Does the TRX really need this?) And your personal approach only speaks of your inability to see beyond your own nose (pocket). "my thrones, my earnings, my...all mine..I..I..I.." And it's not funny at all. My condolences. Oh yeah, you don't understand. |
To see beyond my nose, from long-term of view, lock-up time for unstaking is better for the chain, and everyone will benefit from a stable and secure chain. Most users enjoying Stake 2.0 are proving this. |
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Stake 2.0 has been enabled on TRON mainnet for over a week, and since it went into effect on April 7, TRX staked through Stake 2.0 has shown a rapid increase in volume:
At present, the staked volume on the entire TRON network is 43,836,738,909 TRX, which is a decrease of 1.15% compared with that before the proposal took effect. The staked volume of Stake 1.0 is 41,189,796,123 TRX, a decrease of 7.12%. While the amount of staked TRX in Stake 1.0 has dropped sharply, the total staked amount of TRX has hardly changed, which indicates that more and more staked TRX are switching from Stake 1.0 to Stake 2.0:
After the proposal took effect, the number of daily bandwidth delegation transactions and the number of energy delegation transactions showed a continuous growth trend:
Let me summarize the overall data performance after Stake 2.0 took effect. While the total volume of staked TRX has not changed on the chain, more and more TRX staked have switched from Stake 1.0 to Stake 2.0. The flexibility of Stake 2.0 in terms of resource delegation makes the chain resource delegation increasingly active. |
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as if it wasn't bad enough with a 3 day hold now there is even longer hold and no pay for the 16 days come on people wake up holds that you don't get paid for is just plain stupid . |
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No reward during the unstaking waiting period, this is understandable, almost all DPOS mechanisms work like this. |
it is a waiting time of 14 days rather than 16 days after unstaking, every public chain has a lock-up period mechanism, and answer to the similar question by @okwapa210, if you do not like to wait for 14 days with no rewards, you can use justlend to stake TRX and get sTRX, and you can swap the sTRX to TRX on sunswap at anytime |
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Thanks to everyone's contribution to this proposal. This issue will be closed as it is already going to effect, check detail at: https://tronscan.org/#/proposal/84 |
and others
Simple Summary
In order to improve the utilization of network resources and enhance the stability of the TRON network staking system, it is recommended to open the new staking model: Stack 2.0. For more information about the Stake 2.0 mechanism, please refer to TIP-467.
Motivation
Under the current stake mechanism, stake and delegate operations are bound together, and staking and resource management are very complicated. If you want to change the resource delegating recipient, you must unstake first, then make another staking and specify a new recipient. In addition, the unstake operation must wait for 3 days after staking, which means that the obtained resources cannot be delegated to others within 3 days. If the user has already voted before unstaking, the unstake operation will also cause the vote to be automatically canceled.
Therefore, we need to use a new stake mechanism to solve these problems, separate low-frequency stake operations from high-frequency resource delegate operations, and re-delegate resources without unstaking assets, reducing the complexity of staking and resource management. At the same time, the TVM virtual machine supports all instructions related to Stake 2.0, bringing richer application scenarios to the TRON smart contract ecosystem.
Specification
Propose to modify the No.59 and No.70 TRON Network Parameters so that open Stake 2.0,
ALLOW_TVM_VOTE(No.59) = 1
Set the No. 59 network parameter to 1, and enable the virtual machine contract voting function. Since TVM supports voting by precompiled contract and instruction in Stake 2.0, this parameter needs to set to 1, making Stake 2.0 fully functional.
UNFREEZE_DELAY_DAYS(No.70) = 14
If this parameter is larger than 0, it means Stake 2.0 is opened. This parameter indicates the length of the waiting period that unstaked TRX could be withdrawn after unstaking. In this case, the community decide to set it to 14, which means the waiting period is 14 days in Stake 2.0.
How to initiate the voting request
Implement Stake 2.0:
Timeline
The estimated timeline,
Analysis
Here is the TRX staking rate on TRON,
From the above figure, we can see that the overall staking rate of the network is about 48%. In the future, based on Stake 2.0, more application layer protocols like TRC-484 can be implemented, bringing more application scenarios to the TRON smart contract ecosystem. Furthermore, it promotes the improvement of the network staking rate.
Compatibility
After Stake 2.0 is opened, staking can only be done through Stake2.0 API. The resources already staked and obtained under Stake 1.0 and the votes on the chain are still valid and will not change, and the assets can be redeemed using the unstake method of Stake 1.0. After the proposal takes effect, the Stake 1.0 staking API will return the error message "freeze v2 is open, old freeze is closed".
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