Request to completely overhaul the design of CN (and subsequently TW/HK) glyphs

[Marcus98T]

With the whole amount of issues showing design problems and inconsistencies with CN glyphs (and subsequently some TW/HK glyphs), I might as well suggest that Arphic redo the CN glyphs (and also TW and HK) for the next major version of Source Han Sans and try to match the shapes and balances of the JP/KR glyphs designed by Adobe (those within Adobe-Japan1) or Iwata (for the extra JP glyphs). A redesign can better harmonize with existing JP/KR glyphs that work for CN/TW/HK.

Then instead of posting issues separately, we can all post design issues of CN glyphs here. I will later consolidate all the links and quotes into this page.

However, I think some CN glyphs can be kept as it is, like 的 (U+7684).

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List of design issues relating to CN/TW/HK:

• Consolidation of Post-V2 Glyph Correction Suggestions #204
  (I will later quote selected issues from this page)
• Consolidation of Post-V2 Glyph Redesign Suggestions #205
  (I will later quote selected issues from this page)
• Can we continue removing the feet from 口 when other components are below it? #293
• Minor adjustments for 標 and 灣 #321
• Consolidation of CJK component unification across different regions to reduce unnecessary characters (for 2022) #326
• Lower the leftmost component (口) for 啝 (U+555D, CN/HK/TW regions only), and also please look into redesigning the position of the 口 radical for consistency sake #328
• Beautify 齿 in U+2CE7C 𬹼 and U+2CE93 𬺓 #338
• Issue with U+6E7E 湾 - CN/TW/HK #359
• issue with U+9157-CN 酗 #361
• My Consolidated Issues with Source Han Sans for January 2023 #374
  (look under the subheading "Glyphs that need aesthetic improvement")
• Minor stroke issues in some glyphs (February 2023) #386
  (pertaining to TW glyphs of 亮 (U+4EAE) and 窮 (U+7AAE))
• 䟡 (U+47E1) needs to be adjusted #389
  (maybe)
• Adjust stroke in 间 (U+95F4) #392
• Minor stroke issues in some glyphs (April 2023) #402
  (pertaining to TW glyphs of 觚 (U+89DA), 攜 (U+651C), 靠 (U+9760), 竄 (U+7AC4))
• Improve the design of the 刁 component to work across different locales #404
• Incorrect JP 唾 U+553E #405
  (regarding my comment about the spacing between the components)
• Unify the difference between JP-designed radicals and CN-designed radicals #410
• Standardize TW/HK 八 and 入 components with JP/KR forms #414
  (the 入 and 八 components for TW I believe are also designed by Changzhou Sinotype, as the length of the horizontal stroke in some characters is too short currently)
• Improve the design of uni7F70-CN (罰) #422
• Improve the design of 乃 U+4E43 #423
• If possible, replace some CN (or TW/HK) glyphs with unreleased JP glyphs #425
• Design issue with 盞 (U+76DE, CN glyph) #473
• Design suggestion for the TC/HK 艹 grass radical source-han-serif#211

I have not included issues related to the merging of components yet, just pure design issues. However, with component merging on the cards, the CN/TW/HK glyphs would still have to be redesigned anyway.

And lastly, I ask Adobe not to reinvent the wheel, and look into any unreleased JP glyphs (or v1 JP glyphs) suitable for a possible redesign of the CN/TW/HK glyphs and use them if needed. Fix them if there are minor stroke interpolation or design issues in the source.

[Marcus98T]

With regards to the poorly designed CN (and to an extent TW) glyphs...

I am trying to help by reminding Adobe that there are longstanding issues still not fixed as of v2.004 and they were reported years ago. From issue #205 (Consolidation of Post-V2 Glyph Redesign Suggestions), all posted by @tamcy:

uni8E04-CN: Suggest to make the lower vertical stroke to touch the horizontal stroke on above, so that the design aligns with all other characters with the 步 component:

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uni57D7-CN: This is a commonly used HKSCS character. The 土 component on left is shrunk too much, causing the character to look strange. JP glyph looks good, I suggest to use it as a reference to tweak the CN glyph.

Originally posted by @tamcy in #205 (comment)

Please consider tweaking the CN glyph of U+5230 到 (uni5230-CN), and the TW glyphs of U+7B00 笀 and U+8292 芒 (uni7B00-TW and uni8292-TW). The issue I encountered is best illustrated by the following image:

In ExtraLight when I use it at a large font size, I immediately noticed 笀 and 芒 appear shifted upward and smaller than the other characters. For 到, at normal font size, the 至 component appears leaned to the top-right. The KR version proves my observations, that its 芒 and 到 are obviously better match the size of the other characters (笀 doesn't have any JP/KR version of for comparision).

In Heavy weight, 芒 still appears a bit too small, while the issue exhibited by 到 and 笀 are less obvious in my eyes (I found the problems when using ExtraLight, so checking against the Heavy weight is an afterthought). Still I'd like to suggest to tweak both masters of the three characters for better result in intermediate weights.

The proposed forms, modified from the KR version of the respective characters, are also shown in the image (please ignore the reference form of the radical ⺮ in 笀 though. And I actually wasn't quite satistied with my tweked versoin of 到 in Heavy, I'm sure your team will do better).

Originally posted by @tamcy in #205 (comment)

Suggest to revise 4 more chars (animated GIF below):

U+5E95 底 (uni5E95-TW): Seems the glyph is modified from the JP glyph, but didn't handle the position difference of the 氐 component very well.
U+5FB9 徹 (uni5FB9-CN): The radical on the left is too far away from the other components on the right.
U+8F4D 轍 (uni8F4D-CN): Ditto.
U+9A5F 驟 (uni9A5F-TW): The 聚 component looks contracted in the ExtraLight master.

The problem is immediately noticeable on a large print -

For U+5FB9 徹, U+8F4D 轍 and U+9A5F 驟, the suggested glyphs are modifed from the JP source. I can provide the vector files for your reference if necessary.

Originally posted by @tamcy in #205 (comment)

The bottom of uni8B7D-CN isn't well aligned with other glyphs, which gives an impression that the glyph is shifted upward.

This also affects the Heavy master, but in a lesser extent.

Originally posted by @tamcy in #205 (comment)

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From issue #204 (Consolidation of Post-V2 Glyph Correction Suggestions):

鷕 CN version (red) should be balanced based on JP glyph (blue), especially the 口.

Also I was thinking if the CN version of 异 (red, current) can be adjusted so that it matches the balance of the JP glyph (blue, my proposal based on the JP glyph with 己 becoming 巳).

Originally posted by @Marcus98T in #204 (comment)

1. 氏 (uni6C0F-CN), used in the HK/TW/CN version of SHS, is probably modified from the JP version.
2. However, the current CN glyph looks off-centered but inclined to the right side.
3. The suggestion is to shift the glyph slightly to the left, similar to the previous fix applied to 民 (U+6C11).

Originally posted by @tamcy in #204 (comment)

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Well, I don't know if I am doing the right thing. Ultimately, I think it may be too late to address all these as there is only limited time and resources on Adobe's side, and I may have to also accept the fact that most of these "issues" I've raised over the years may not even be fixed at all, even after Dr Ken Lunde had left.

@Marcus98T We have limited time and limited resources, and while perfection is a worthwhile goal, there are reasons, practical and otherwise, why it's not going to happen in the near future. If we had unlimited time and unlimited resources, it would be a different story, but alas we do not. I suggest that you focus your energies elsewhere.

Originally posted by @kenlunde in #204 (comment)

Still, I've done my best doing what I had to do. If they don't address some issues, that's no longer my problem to contend with.